Breaking News: Independent Newspaper Publisher And CEO Baba Galleh Jallow Exposes Yahya Jammeh!!!

Freedom Newspaper: Can your briefly introduce yourself to our readership?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, I was born in Farafenni, attended Armitage and Gambia High, did my BA in History and Political Science at Fourah Bay College, Freetown and my MA in Liberal Studies at Rutgers University, New Jersey. I’m currently pursuing a PhD in African History at UC Davis. I was one time editor-in-chief of the Daily Observer and Founder Editor of The Independent newspaper.

Freedom Newspaper: What can you tell us about Gambia's current political situation? In your view, is the country on the right track politically?

Baba Galleh Jallow: No, I don’t think the country is on the right track politically. I think the current political situation is very troubling because it is a situation of dictatorship, a situation where people are bullied by the government and the head of state behaves as if he owns the country itself and everything in it. That doesn’t bode well for the future of our country.

Freedom Newspaper: Has President Jammeh changed for the better or for the worse?

Baba Galleh Jallow: The only change I notice is that he was once a poor lieutenant weighing just over a hundred pounds and is now a hefty multi-millionaire who is even richer than the Gambian state. Otherwise, I don’t think he has changed at all. If you are incapable of assimilating contrary ideas and opinions, you will be incapable of changing, at least not for the better. I think the power has gotten into his head and he is mind-blind, which means that he is incapable of rational thought as far as the exercise of power is concerned.

Freedom Newspaper: What makes you to disagree with the Gambian leader? What are your reservations against Jammeh?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, for one thing, Jammeh is a dictator who has no respect for the rights of his fellow citizens. He imagines that the concept of rights itself is nonsense as long as they conflict with his personal wishes and opinions. Secondly, he has failed to fulfill some of the most important promises he made to the Gambian people when he took over, such as instituting a term limit for the presidency. So in essence he is holding the Gambian nation hostage by insisting that he is the only one capable of heading the state.

Freedom Newspaper: What type of Gambia do you want to see?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I want to see a Gambia where the leaders are true servants of the people rather than their lords and masters. I want to see a Gambia where the dignity of every human being is respected; where the law rules supreme; where the true objects of development – the minds of the people – are prioritized. Ultimately, I want to see a Gambia where the nation builds the state, and not a state oppressing its citizens in the name of nation-building. I want to see a Gambia of free, responsible, and conscious citizens who will build and effectively control a state that cannot and will not abuse its power. I want to see a Gambia of free and powerful people, where people are free to disagree with, and criticize the government. I want to see a Gambia with a state that has an authentic homegrown ideology and a vision of progress grounded in practical reality.

Freedom Newspaper: What good thing can you tell us that the Jammeh Government has done since coming to power?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well the Jammeh government might have done some good things – like building roads, schools, hospitals etc. But we must remember that the money used to build these projects belong to the Gambian nation, the people; it does not belong to the head of state or the government. More importantly, development is not about building structures, it is about building minds. Develop the minds of the people and the people will develop their country. I like to say that our people are our diamonds and our minds are our petroleum. Ideas are the blocks with which nations are built. If you suppress ideas, you strangle the nation’s creative energy. The Jammeh regime is anti-mind, anti-intellectual, anti-ideas; and so his government builds all these projects but neglects and actually represses our most valuable resource – our minds, our people. So he is starving our nation intellectually. That is unacceptable.

Freedom Newspaper: How about the University of The Gambia? Will you call that development?

Baba Galleh Jallow: It depends on what function the university serves in our society, what it represents, what kind of graduates it produces, what impact it has or will have on our overall cultural, socio-economic and political well being as a nation. Should the university be manufacturing consent? Should it be producing mindless robots, groups of Gambians so eager to partake of the so-called national cake that they would do anything to be in the good books of the powers that be? Or should it be producing graduates with independent and creative minds who will dare to disagree with some of what is happening in their country? And in any case, the university does not belong to Jammeh, as he recently claimed. It belongs to the Gambian nation, which is bigger than Jammeh and all of us combined. It was built with our money, not his money. So it was an insult to our intelligence that he should call it his university.

Freedom Newspaper: Will you call The Gambia a failed state?

Baba Galleh Jallow: We need to make a distinction here between the state (government) and the nation (the people). The Gambian government is definitely a failed state. The Gambian nation is not a failed nation; we are not a failed people; we are not intellectually crippled; we will only be a failed nation if we are intellectually crippled; and it would take more than jailing or killing journalists and closing media houses to intellectually cripple the Gambian nation. The vigorous online media and robust mailing lists we have is ample testimony to Gambians’ resolve to refuse to be silenced. But the state? Yes, the Gambian state is a woefully failed state.

Freedom Newspaper: What is a failed state?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well a failed state is many things. In my opinion, a failed state is primarily one that is incapable of situating itself in the right relationship vis-à-vis its masters, the people. A failed state is one that, like a bad old hen, habitually drinks her eggs; a failed state is a state that is so insecure and unsure of itself that it muzzles the nation’s creative energies, which are its most important and powerful resource. A failed state is a state that makes enemies of its people rather than seek to appropriate some of their ideas for the sake of the national interests. A failed state is one that, among many other bad things, imagines that it owns the land and can do anything and everything it wishes regardless of how unjust or damaging to the nation. These are just some of the most obvious political traits of a failed state. There are economic aspects of a failed state that economists are better qualified to comment upon.

Freedom Newspaper: Brain drain is a major problem confronting the African continent. What is responsible for the continent's brain drain?

Baba Galleh Jallow: A coterie of power drunk leaders who, by their ignorance and irresponsibility, encourage corruption, foster a dysfunctional political system, frustrate educated people and qualified professionals, and muzzle dissent and creativity. That is responsible for Africa’s brain drain.

Freedom Newspaper: Is The Gambia affected by brain drain?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Yes, very much so.

Freedom Newspaper: What needs to be done to discourage brain drain in Africa?

Baba Galleh Jallow: A lot needs to be done. For a start - stop the rot. Foster the spirit of responsible statehood. Encourage creativity.

Freedom Newspaper: What's your humble opinion about The Gambian opposition?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I think just the reality of being opposition parties in that kind of environment is commendable. Like all of us, they do have their shortcomings here and there; but I definitely have a lot of respect for all of them.

Freedom Newspaper: Do you think the current opposition can dislodge the Jammeh Government through elections?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, I wouldn’t say they can’t. They can if they try hard enough, even though the political field is far from level and the president is ready to do anything to stay in power.

Freedom Newspaper: If our memory serves us right, you were among the eminent Gambians who accepted to serve in the National Consultative Committee, which was tasked to draw a time table for the then junta in a bid to return to Civilian Rule. What motivated you to serve in the said Committee?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I was motivated to accept the invitation to serve on the NCC by a strong desire to see a peaceful and orderly return to civilian rule. And I do not regret it one bit. I was almost a nobody in the company of NCC members like Lenrie Peters, Bishop Michael Cleary, and Deyda Hydara, just to name a few. We were all motivated by a desire to see our country through a peaceful and orderly transition to civilian rule. But the people’s wishes as expressed in the NCC report were betrayed by Jammeh.

Freedom Newspaper: So Jammeh knew you from the word go, right?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, I think he did. I don’t know how they reached the decision to include me on their list of invitees but I did meet him twice at State House – at the launching of the NCC and at the submission of our report a couple of months later.

Freedom Newspaper: Has the then Junta complied with all the recommendations made by the National Consultative Committee?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Absolutely not. They betrayed the trust of the people; they broke their most important promises. One of the key recommendations of the report was a two five-year term limit, which was excised from the draft constitution as soon as Jammeh decided that power was too sweet to give up.

Freedom Newspaper: Do you feel you made a wrong political judgment by associating yourself with the National Consultative Committee as a journalist? Any regrets?

Baba Galleh Jallow: As I said, no regrets at all. I was happy to be doing something to help my country survive a very delicate period in our history. I was not working for the AFPRC. I was working for my country. Of course, at that early period, I had no idea that the AFPRC was going to disregard the opinions and wishes of the Gambian people.

Freedom Newspaper: The coup leaders at the material time had little or no knowledge about Governance. Did you join the Committee for the sake of safeguarding the country's political future?

Baba Galleh Jallow: That’s right.

Freedom Newspaper: Is it true that you once criticized Halifa Sallah and Sam Sarr for failing to accept to work with the then junta? What actually happened?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well I vaguely remember having expressed an opinion that Halifa would be a great asset to the junta because I felt that they needed all the intellectual assistance they could get. I guess I was wrong and that Halifa, with the benefit of foresight, saw through the mask of Jammeh and his cohorts much earlier than most of us. I do not think I ever mentioned Sam Sarr in that opinion piece. And it was less a criticism than an opinion I expressed.

Freedom Newspaper: Do you consider their turning down the junta's offer as wrong?

Baba Galleh Jallow: No, they were absolutely right to refuse to have anything to do with Jammeh. I was wrong to think that the AFPRC would have benefited from Halifa’s contributions. Jammeh is incapable of appreciating the worth of ideas, which is what Halifa had most to offer.

Freedom Newspaper: How would you rate the reaction of Gambians toward the coup - most importantly the elite population? Did our intellectuals including yourself do what was expected of them at the time in question to hold the military rulers accountable to the populace?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well I cannot speak for other people. Personally, I did try to do what I felt was right and I have never stopped doing that I feel is right. I don’t know what exactly is expected of me but I know what my duty as a citizen is, and I am and will continue trying to do that.

Freedom Newspaper: You started your university education in Sierra Leone, before coming to the US for your graduate and postgraduate studies. What can you tell us about the military's participation in politics?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Military involvement in politics was the worst thing that happened to postcolonial Africa.

Freedom Newspaper: To what extent has the military undermined democracy on the continent?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well the military did not start undermining democracy in Africa. That was started by the independence era civilian heads of state. Instead of opening up the political space, greed and irresponsibility led those folks into strangling our countries, thus giving an excuse to power-hungry and semi-illiterate generals, lieutenants, sergeants, and corporals to seize power. Every moron with a gun could move in and seize power. I guess the soldiers reasoned that if the civilians are using our guns to control power, why not use our guns to control power ourselves?

Freedom Newspaper: In the case of The Gambia, what would you say led to the July 22^nd coup?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I think the fact that Jawara overstayed his welcome was the most direct cause of the coup. Of course, the soldiers knew that he was weak and that people were sick and tired of his government. If Jawara had instituted a mechanism for a periodic and orderly change of leadership, the coup might not have happened.

Freedom Newspaper: APRC supporters welcomed the Jammeh-led coup against Jawara's Government. Was the July 22^nd coup justified in the first place?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, I cannot say that it was justified or unjustified. Considering the way things have gone since the coup, I think it was unfortunate because we are saddled with a man even more power hungry and certainly far more dictatorial than Jawara. In that sense, it was a tragic setback for our country.

Freedom Newspaper: Comparing the PPP Government and the current Jammeh Government, which of the two is more democratic?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I cannot talk of the Jammeh government in terms of democracy. And I find it hard to talk about a one-man or one-party democracy, which is what the PPP government was. In terms of bureaucratic maturity, respect for the rule of law, and political tolerance, the Jawara government was far better than what we have today.

Freedom Newspaper: Did the PPP Government commit any major political mistakes in your view?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Yes, among other things, their failure to impose term limits was a terrible political blunder, which is costing us very dear.

Freedom Newspaper: Do you consider the APRC as a photocopy of the PPP, that Jammeh is following the footsteps of his predecessor President Jawara?

Baba Galleh Jallow: No, I think the APRC is an ugly caricature of the PPP. As far as the tendency to cling to power is concerned, Jammeh is much worse than Jawara.

Freedom Newspaper: Let us revisit your student days. What can you tell us about the Banjul student riots in the late 80's. What actually happened? Were you part of that strike?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well that was a spontaneous strike against the lack of school buses; and yes, I got very much involved in it as Head Boy of Gambia High School. Students who had no money to take a van used to stand on Independence Drive from around 2pm to late at night without having a bus to take them home to the Kombos. It was an intolerable situation and so riots broke out. Car windshields and windows were smashed and students fought running battles with police from Banjul to Serrekunda and Bakau.

Freedom Newspaper: We gathered that some sixth form students at Gambia High School, including you, gave shelter to some students when the police chased them. Former Magistrate Lamin Mboge, alias Bella, was also among your group. Are such reports accurate?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Yes, they are accurate. We did shelter some students from the police at the Gambia High School. And yes, Magistrate Mboge was right there.

Freedom Newspaper: Was the former administration sensitive to the plight of Gambian students?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, it was certainly sensitive to the needs of students whose fathers, uncles, mothers, or other relatives were in good government positions. Only students with connections in high places could obtain the best scholarships for the UK, the U.S., Canada, Australia, and France. No matter how well they performed in the O and A levels, students from poor backgrounds could never get the good scholarships. They had to go to Sierra Leone, Ghana, Nigeria, Russia, or China. There was a lot of nepotism in those days, the whom you know syndrome.

Freedom Newspaper: How was school life like at Armitage?

Baba Galleh Jallow: It was great. Very rewarding.

Freedom Newspaper: Why was Armitage the school for the sons of chiefs and other local authorities?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well the British wanted to train the sons of chiefs to become clerks, interpreters, and other intermediaries and collaborators in the colonial bureaucracy. Or so that they could replace their fathers as chief. It was a way of facilitating communication between the British and the local people and enhancing the British practice of indirect rule.

Freedom Newspaper: What inspired you into journalism?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Frankly, I just stumbled into journalism. After I graduated from Fourah Bay College, I worked for the exams council for two years. While at WAEC I started writing short stories for the Observer and when I left WAEC, Mr. Best offered me a job as assistant editor. That’s how I got into journalism.

Freedom Newspaper: You are one of the most persecuted Gambian journalists. Your newspaper The Independent was fire-bombed twice by agents believed to be acting on the instructions of the state. The Independent has now been closed by the state for unexplained reasons. What do you make of all these happenings?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Mainly that the Jammeh regime is a dictatorship that, like all dictatorships, is allergic to, extremely paranoid and afraid of the truth, and will do anything to muzzle the truth. But you can’t suppress the truth. The more you attack the truth, the stronger it gets.

Freedom Newspaper: What are you doing to facilitate the reopening of The Independent?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well we are doing something but we want to keep our hands close to the chest just now about what we are doing.

Freedom Newspaper: What led to the sale of the Daily Observer?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I think the fact that the paper was not doing well economically frustrated Mr. Best and made him decide to sell the Observer.

Freedom Newspaper: Was The Independent set up as a result of the media censorship at the Daily Observer? Or did you conceive the idea of setting up a paper well before the sale of the Observer?

Baba Galleh Jallow: No, when I was editor of the Observer, there was no censorship there. We published whatever we felt was worthy of publication despite the objections of some senior members of the company management. You were there at the time and you know what I mean. I thought of starting The Independent because I guessed – rightly so – that the Observer could not survive as it was. I did not know that it was going to be bought by the Jammeh regime, but I felt it could not continue the way it was. And I wanted to make sure that an alternative independent media house existed in the country.

Freedom Newspaper: Who came up with the idea of setting up The Independent? Where did you get the funds to set up The Independent at the time?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I came up with the idea of setting up The Independent while I was still editing the Observer. I came up with the idea, thought of a name for the paper, called Alagi Yorro on his home phone, and invited him to come work with me on the project. Because I was editing a daily paper, I needed someone who had the time to run around with the paperwork. Yorro did an excellent job of that. We used our own meager resources to start the paper. We started out by renting the GPU computers and printers for two weeks. What we had was a group of dedicated people with lots of determination and credibility, and that saw us through the difficult early days.

Freedom Newspaper: There was this general belief in The Gambia that The Independent was being sponsored by the Americans. Is there any iota of truth into such reports?

Baba Galleh Jallow: That was absolutely untrue. After about one year of operation, we did apply for some media funds that the U.S. embassy had and from which other media houses in The Gambia had benefited. And we did get some funds to buy computers from Quantumnet. As far as I know, that was the last time the U.S. embassy gave us anything.

Freedom Newspaper: How did you manage to survive all these years, bearing in mind that without advertisement it is hard to maintain a newspaper in The Gambia? Many advertisers might have been afraid to advertise with The Independent due to your firm editorial policy.

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, we just survived. We were not in it for the money; As long as we could pay our staff and overhead bills, we were okay. And we did have adverts from many private institutions in spite of the government.

Freedom Newspaper: Has the Jammeh Government ever patronized your paper with advertisement?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I don’t think so. We didn’t care if they did anyway.

Freedom Newspaper: How many times have you been arrested by the Jammeh Government? Is the NIA an ideal place for detention?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, about five or six times I think. No place is an ideal place for detention, not least the NIA.

Freedom Newspaper: Yourself and co-proprietor Alagi Yorro Jallow suffered untold persecution in the hands of The Gambian Immigration. An investigation was set up by the state to investigate your Gambian citizenship? What actually happened?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, I was visited by two immigration officers who said they were sent to check on my papers and determine whether I was a Gambian.

Freedom Newspaper: We understand that your parents were also questioned by the Immigration. In your view, is Yahya Jammeh more Gambian than you?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Yes, my parents were questioned and their ID documents seized. They were never returned. Fortunately no Gambian can be more Gambian than another.

Freedom Newspaper: Did you feel threatened at the time?

Baba Galleh Jallow: My rights as a citizen were being questioned but no, I did not feel threatened. I have always said that I was beholden to a power much greater than Jammeh and the Gambia government’s. I was beholden to God and so could not entertain the idea that anything but God could harm me. I will always feel that way.

Freedom Newspaper: What qualifies one to be a Gambian under the current constitution?

Baba Galleh Jallow: In addition to being born in The Gambia, at least one of a person’s parents should be born in The Gambia. The constitution also provides for naturalization of persons wishing to acquire Gambian citizenship. But what the constitution says is immaterial as far as the Jammeh regime is concerned. Jammeh does not give a hoot what the constitution says about the rights of citizens or the duties and responsibilities of government. I think he even forgets that there is such a thing as a Constitution of the Republic of the Gambia.

Freedom Newspaper: Why should the state persecute you in the name of Citizenship?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I think the state is in a better position to answer that question.

Freedom Newspaper: Could you count your worst moments as a journalist in The Gambia?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I never had a single bad moment as a journalist in The Gambia. The state could really not reach me. I refused to be intimidated and actually enjoyed it when they made fools of themselves by arresting me on bogus and unjustifiable charges. I enjoyed every single moment of my days as an active journalist in The Gambia, particularly when I was arrested and locked up at the NIA. My spirit is free; they can never touch it or lock it up.

Freedom Newspaper: How would you describe the future of Gambia's independent journalism? Any cause for concern?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well as long as we have a dictatorship, independent journalism will face crises. But we now have independent online media houses like Freedom and there’s nothing the dictatorship can do about that. So I’m optimistic. A people cannot be suppressed if they refuse to be suppressed.

Freedom Newspaper: You recently published a new book titled "Mandela's Other Children." What is this book about?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Mandela’s Other Children is partly a record of my experiences as a journalist in The Gambia, partly a commentary and analysis of the political situation in The Gambia since 1994, and partly a message of defiance to the Jammeh regime – a message that we refuse to be bullied into silence. The ‘children’ in “Mandela’s Other Children” is meant to draw an analogy between the apartheid regime’s massacre of students in Soweto in June 1976 and the Jammeh regime’s massacre of students in April 2000.

Freedom Newspaper: Where can people order this book?

Baba Galleh Jallow: It’s available on Amazon.

Freedom Newspaper: There was another book you released titled "The Anatomy of Powercracy and Other Essays." Again, what is the objective of the said book?

Baba Galleh Jallow: To expose the nature of Africa’s dictatorships. That book also has essays and commentaries on wider African issues, on classical and modern political philosophy – on the works of Socrates, Edmund Burke, St. Thomas Aquinas, and Karl Marx, among others.

Freedom Newspaper: I came into contact with many people who say they like your stories. Are these stories factual or fictional? What would you say to people who try to personalize such writings, who suspect that your characters refer to certain individuals? Do you write to caricature others or are these just imaginary writings?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well people should feel free to interpret my writings anyhow they like. I do not caricature people; I caricature social vices such as arrogance, greed for power, hypocrisy, sycophancy, etc. And no, these are not just imaginary writings. They are grounded in reality.

Freedom Newspaper: What makes one to be a good poet?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I guess the ability to write good poetry.

Freedom Newspaper: What is your assessment of Gambian writers? What needs to be done to promote Gambian literature?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well a lot of young Gambians are beginning to emerge and they should be given all encouragement. I think Cherno Omar Barry is doing a great job of collecting Gambian writings and the profiles of writers and putting them on a site. That is an extremely valuable resource.

Freedom Newspaper: As the new Secretary General of GPU-USA, what plans do you have to shape the welfare of the organization?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Well, we are brainstorming on how to move this organization forward. One of the things we have started doing is reaching out to people and persuading them to become members or be more proactive in the union’s affairs. Over the past week or so we have been able to attract several new members. We will also be reaching out to non-journalists and inviting them to join us as associate members. And we will be networking with international media organizations such as CPJ and IPI so that our members may possibly benefit from some of their training and other programs. These are our immediate plans. More generally, we are always ready to support the media, journalists, and our parent body back home.

Freedom Newspaper: Any appeal to the general membership?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Let’s join hands and work hard for our country. If we have any prior differences, let’s put them aside and move ahead. We need every thread of creative energy we can muster.

Freedom Newspaper: If you have the chance of meeting President Jammeh today what will you tell him?

Baba Galleh Jallow: I think I will ask him to wake up and think on what he is doing to our country. At a second meeting, after he wakes up, I will have more to say to him. But for a start I will say, Mr. Jammeh, wake up and think. Or I may challenge him to a wrestling contest!

Freedom Newspaper: Do you miss The Gambia?

Baba Galleh Jallow: Oh yes, I miss The Gambia very much. Who doesn’t  miss sweet home?

Freedom Newspaper: Any last words?

Baba Galleh Jallow: For this interview, yes. To you I say keep up the good work at Freedom. To Gambians I say, the revolution we need is a revolution of minds, a transformation of mentalities. Let us start thinking along those lines.

Freedom Newspaper: Thanks Mr. Jallow for finding time in your busy schedule to talk to us.

Baba Galleh Jallow: It has been my pleasure.