Does he forget that many of those being persecuted home have kids who would love to see their dad’s smiles too?

“Jammeh’s life is in the hands of God not me! Mine too is in the hands of the same God. Politically here is my answer: If disrespecting the constitution continues to prevail then Mr Mbai chances of stability after a sudden stoppage of Jammeh's reign are too slim. Even though many may think he should go,if Jammeh was to suddenly disappear into thin air or be replaced without proper methods in place it could lead to vacuum if uncontrolled with immediate effect. That is, putting in place methods that are meant to adhere to the rule of law. The contrary means any Samba or Demba can use force to rule. This is where Jammeh needs to visualize and respect the rule of law. Because him being replaced in a responsible way can only be caused if he rules in a responsible way. Infact this is future political investment for his own safe exit route. No one will beg him to do so. The choice is his. Certainly one day he will go. I would think a wise person will want to retire, stay at ease and take a back seat enjoying his or her legacy rather than clinging onto power to the point of death. This is where I admire Senghore and Abdou Diouf(both former leaders of Senegal). Senghore died and was honoured after retiring. Did he die a president(active duty)? No! Mr Mbai carelessness while in power breeds chaos. Likewise force also breeds force. Non chalant actions breed non chalant reactions period. Of course Mr Mbai if everything is running fine that is, (where the rule of law supersedes the desire to rule by force) then replacing Jammeh with a competent Gambian is as easy as one,two three. There are so many Gambians who can replace him and rule the country in a very effective way within five seconds if he were to resign,disappear or answer to the ultimate call of natural causes under normal circumstances. Everything must come to an end except Allah,so Jammeh if he loves The Gambia should think about that as well. Other wise the adverse results may as well continue if his reign was to suddenly end. Then leaving a vacuum within a power cliché! Especially in this noisy hypocrisy of praise singing that is prevailing within the four walls of the state house.” Former Gambian Ambassador to the United States Essa Bokarr Sey, speaking in an Exclusive Interview with Freedom Newspaper’s Pa Nderry M’Bai. Mr. Sey who also served as an Ambassador in Taiwan and France also commented on a Jammeh’s move to nationalize the naming ceremony of his first son Baby Muhammed Jammeh. Sey commented on wide range of issues, ranging from intellectual honesty, role of Gambia’s religious leaders in any true democracy and a host of other topical issues. Below is part one of the interview, please read on…….

Freedom Newspaper: Good day Ambassador Sey. What do you make out of Jammeh's move to nationalize his son's naming ceremony? Do you think such an event was necessary in the first place?

Essa Bokarr Sey: First allow me congratulate the Jammeh family as far as tradition and culture is what we go by in our cultural school of thought. On the other hand I will not lay any blames on baby Muhammed because he did not choose to be born in this situation, neither did he choose Yahya and Zeinab to be his parents. Muhammed is an innocent child in this whole quagmire. His own father is the cause of everything, wrong or right. Nationalizing the child's birth does not even deserve causing a debate. In every angle it is wrong. It shows a pompous side of the President. He may think he is doing it to his opponents but he is doing it to himself. As time goes on Jammeh will realize what I mean here.

Well Mr Mbai,where there is no respect for constitutional rule anything should be expected. I do not think the naming ceremony of a president's son worths magnetizing the whole state machinery but with Mr Jammeh he sees himself as a very strong man who can do what he likes while disregarding the rule of law. This has finished many other leaders who were before him. He will without any doubt in my mind face the same fate. Thats a historical fact. Mr Mbai President Jammeh is a champion when it comes to "strange or crude behavior".

Mr Jammeh thinks doing certain things is a way of angering those who oppose him. This feeling of "...I will do what I like and see what they can do about it..." has always been the Jammeh badge. This will lead him to a dark den one day.

Freedom Newspaper: Many observers believe that the President is grooming his son to replace him when he got older. Baby Muhammed Yahya Jammeh was accorded with national parade by the armed forces, followed by a National Anthem. This seems to suggest that he is a leader in the making? Your views on this?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Mr Mbai,leading yesterday, today or tomorrow is in the hands of God or Allah. Questions one may ask oneself are these...

-Could former president Jawara (Jammeh's predecessor) force David Jawara (his first son) on us as his successor?

-Could Mobutu of Congo do so either?

-How about other leaders elsewhere?

I know that there are so many examples at the disposal of desirous leaders. They may refer to these examples like the son of former President Eyadema,Kabila and others but the patterns of life are not always the same. Coming back to the root of your question. Even if that is not what Jammeh desires, his actions are speaking louder than words here. Is that even safe for the kid at this time? Muhammed Jammeh has all rights to stand for politics when he grows but let his father not predict what Allah does. We all know that Allah is so unpredictable. There is one old adage in fulani that says..." The serpent that wants to become a big snake must hide when young.." Infact was President Jammeh's own father a President in 1965? No he was not. Didn't Allah destine what was to happen to his son Yahya? Yes He did!

When Yahya was born there were many people who thought their sons and daughters would replace Jawara...Did that happen? No! Therefore Mr Mbai no being can preempt what Allah will do within the next second. For me Muhammed Jammeh is an infant and should be taught how to tackle life but not how to tackle hunger for power!

Freedom Newspaper: Religious leaders such as Imam Fatty prayed for Jammeh's lasting rule. That God should facilitate Jammeh's Government to stay for good. Fatty also tried to mystify the new born baby. What do you make out of all these happenings?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Mr Mbai the same prayers were done for President Jawara. The same prayers were done for Charles Taylor, Captain Valentine Strasser,others and others. I still remember when such prayers were done for Strasser in my presence while on a visit to Sierra Leone in 1994. I remember hearing stories about human parts being buried for a former African leader who said he was going to rule for years. This man was taken out like a fly. The meaning of prayers is synonymous to asking questions. They are raising their hands asking God or Allah something...Does that mean Allah or God will be dictated by them? Of course not! As they were praying, someone else might have been praying to the same Allah because he or she was wronged by that very Yahya Jammeh they were praying for. Do they know who is closer to Allah? Do they know where all men and women of Allah or God are at this moment? They do not! So Mr Mbai prayers are like requests. They can either be approved or turned down. We cannot force God or Allah to hate Yahya,neither can Yahya also force God or Allah to hate people like Essa Bokarr Sey! That’s it!

Freedom Newspaper: What do you expect from our Religious leaders-most importantly the Imams?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Mr Mbai what I expect from them is nothing else other than adhering to the teachings of the holy book and the messenger of Allah period. Anything less than that means..."Sirk" or associating God or Allah with something else. This indeed can be dangerous for them. These Imams should know one thing, that is, when a learned man or woman wrongs, his or her punishment will be harsher than those who do not know the teachings of our sacred theologies. They are like policemen and women on earth guarding the teachings of the holy book. When a policeman or woman is caught stealing what do you expect from a judge? Harsh or mild punishment? Of course harsh punishment my good friend Mr Mbai. These Imams should be very very careful! I have seen the video cassette of President Jammeh's naming ceremony. I wanted to see it because I am interested in seeing, observing and analyzing anything he does or says. I know why! If he does not know why I do. They should get the same cassette and watch it again and again then criticize themselves. Their actions spoke louder than words in that video. I saw how Jammeh was smiling and joking with his daughter Myriam. Does he forget that my own kids Bokarr and Baba also love seeing my smiles too? Does he forget that many of those being persecuted home have kids who would love to see their dad’s smiles too? His is more than a father at home. He is a national figure who should care for every child. It would have been lovely on that day if Jammeh was to free all political prisoners and ask their children to receive their dads and pray for him. What would that have reduced from him? Nothing! That would have been the best way to express his thanks to Allah. Forgiveness is the best way to express one’s thanks to Allah. Let Yahya forgive all those political prisoners in Janjangbureh Island,Mile Two and so on. Let him do so and leave the rest with God. If not he is yet to attain the grade of Godly souls!

Freedom Newspaper: Many believe that the role of Religious leaders is to preach morality and accountability in society. But in the case of The Gambia, some religious leaders spent their time appeasing the President. Is this right?

Essa Bokarr Sey:Well refer to my previous answer. They cannot tell me they do not understand where they went wrong during the ceremony. They know exactly what they did wrong or right! Chanting the name "Allahu Akbarr!" while a president was parading his baby on a pillow case in that crowd means what? I want them to give us a sermon along those lines therefore tell us what is synonymous to the teachings of the holy Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) in that? Infact even Great Sheikhs like Bamba,Malick Sey and Bai Nyass do not chant that great name for their newly born. Anyway, we have Saddam Hussein who had the same sacred name on his national flag. Did that stop him from being removed from his throne when the time was ripe? Not at all. Would any of those Imams tell me they read Islam more than Saddam or some of his former followers? Of course not. Allah's or God's name is not meant for political popularity. They will rediscover what it means along the way.

Freedom Newspaper: Who is your favorite Gambian religious leader?

Essa Bokarr Sey: I do not have one favorite religious leader neither do I stop within The Gambia when it comes to that. First my favorite religious leader was my own father Uztaaz Bokarr Sey(deceased). He taught me and many others religion and died a teacher on May 8th 1996. He taught me about the messengers of Allah or God. I could not have known what faith and religion are if Uztaaz did not teach me. Next is the late Abdoul Aziz Sey of Tivaoune in Senegal, next is Cheikh Ahmadou Bamba of Touba,next is Cheikh Ebrima Nyass of Kaolack,Next is Cheikh Oumar Futiyu of Futa Toro,next is my late grand father Amadou Hamad Sey(my father's father) next is my maternal grand father Imam Gidda Haminah Bah(deceased a grand son of Maba Jahu Bah) my mother's father. So Mr Mbai these are my favorite religious leaders. Some of them did so much to promote good and stop bad. On the other hand my father, mother and their own parents left a legacy of teaching therefore I grew up within to learn what I know about faith today. When one talks about religion none can ignore Christianity. I have favorite leaders on that side too. In The Gambia my favorites are Bishop Tilewa Johnson, Michael Cleary(who I think left our shores?). Senegal's Bishop Adrian Sarr is also a man a I admire because he rose Africa's flag in Rome. Mahatma Ghandi although a political figure can also find his role in this arena of faith because of the respect he had for faiths like Hinduism. These men and women are my favorites!

Freedom Newspaper: Has Jammeh overstayed his welcome?

Essa Bokarr Sey:(laughter...) who welcomed Jammeh? Well as far as I am concerned time has that answer. Jammeh will meet his fate along the way.

Freedom Newspaper: Do you see anybody in the APRC who can replace Jammeh? Don't tell me VP Njie Saidy or Speaker FJC.

Essa Bokarr Sey: You know Mr Mbai,many people may not believe me here but I really do not know Fatou Jahumpa Ceesay very well. She is one person I have not had the chance of discussing anything with during my days in the government. Therefore if she has potentials to lead I do not know. This is an empty space for my hypothetical desires!Mr Mbai for VP Isatou Njie Saidy,I am not sure if I can judge what she intends to do after Jammeh. However, one thing I know is that there are so many hearts and minds who have been emboldened by the July 1994 coup. Especially when it comes to the desire of wanting to occupy the state house. My only question to these "waffles" around the seat of power is this...? Why don't they learn from the past? Why don’t they calculate the mathematics of the future?

Freedom Newspaper: May God forbid, what happens if people wakeup one morning and Jammeh is announced dead? Do you foresee an ungovernable Gambia in the event of Jammeh's demise?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Jammeh’s life is in the hands of God not me! Mine too is in the hands of the same God. Politically here is my answer: If disrespecting the constitution continues to prevail then Mr Mbai chances of stability after a sudden stoppage of Jammeh's reign are too slim. Even though many may think he should go,if Jammeh was to suddenly disappear into thin air or be replaced without proper methods in place it could lead to vacuum if uncontrolled with immediate effect. That is, putting in place methods that are meant to adhere to the rule of law. The contrary means any Samba or Demba can use force to rule. This is where Jammeh needs to visualize and respect the rule of law. Because him being replaced in a responsible way can only be caused if he rules in a responsible way. Infact this is future political investment for his own safe exit route. No one will beg him to do so. The choice is his. Certainly one day he will go. I would think a wise person will want to retire, stay at ease and take a back seat enjoying his or her legacy rather than clinging onto power to the point of death. This is where I admire Senghore and Abdou Diouf(both former leaders of Senegal). Senghore died and was honoured after retiring. Did he die a president(active duty)? No! Mr Mbai carelessness while in power breeds chaos. Likewise force also breeds force. Non chalant actions breed non chalant reactions period.

Of course Mr Mbai if everything is running fine that is, (where the rule of law supersedes the desire to rule by force) then replacing Jammeh with a competent Gambian is as easy as one,two three. There are so many Gambians who can replace him and rule the country in a very effective way within five seconds if he were to resign, disappear or answer to the ultimate call of natural causes under normal circumstances. Everything must come to an end except Allah, so Jammeh if he loves The Gambia should think about that as well. Other wise the adverse results may as well continue if his reign was to suddenly end. Then leaving a vacuum within a power cliché! Especially in this noisy hypocrisy of praise singing that is prevailing within the four walls of the state house.

Freedom Newspaper: Jammeh's IQS are questionable in some quarters. Many believe that he might as well be insane. That his personal comportment does not speak well for a sitting President. Being a former friend and close associate of Jammeh, do you sense some mental retardation on him off late? Is this Jammeh you used to know? Is everything well with Jammeh?

Essa Bokarr Sey: I do not think Jammeh is mentally ill. I think he is simply a socio-path if one may say so(laughter). He likes calling attention towards his being for every reason good or bad. That is what he should stop as a leader. Anyone who knows the past of Jammeh will never be taken by surprise even if he was to curse people's mothers at McCarthy Square, in the middle of Banjul. Thats Yahya Jammeh. I for one know him and he knows that I know him.

Freedom Newspaper: In your view, do you think Jammeh is ruling the country right? Any power excesses?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Yes he is. He has said it himself. He said he is a dictator of development. No one said it for him,he said that at his own free will while delivering a lengthy unedited speech at the Arch 22. What Jammeh does not know is that every time he speaks people like me get the message live and direct. Any meeting he attends I get the messages directly. This is not a political bluff, it is a fact! Anything he does or says is being monitored by interested parties. I am interested in what he says or does thats why I am attached to this feeling of watching him closely. Sure he is a president ruling my country so why not monitor him if I have the ways and means. Let him make no mistake or be fooled by his so-called Intelligence. His actions and speeches are being received and analyzed. This is not uncommon it is a natural duty for every citizen.

Freedom Newspaper: Jammeh supporters are not happy that you are aligning yourself with the Freedom Newspaper. They argued that it's wrong for you to pick on Jammeh when you once served under him before. What's your response to such critics?

Essa Bokarr Sey: You know Mr Mbai...what makes me wonder is those who tend to love Jammeh more than he loves himself? That is what Jammeh needs to be very careful of. I care less about those kind of supporters. Infact those critics were there during the early days that is, when I just left the regime. Now that they have been following my track record, I think these people have finally discovered if I am that kind of person who will not survive without Yahya Jammeh or not! Look Mr Mbai,I can assure you one thing today. If I am simply going against Jammeh because I am no longer in the regime or because he has wronged a course we all believed in 1994 God or Allah is watching over my soul. I have no doubt in my mind that Allah knows I do not hate Jammeh. I simply disagree with the way he is operating. I think all those who were shouting should call Yahya and ask him if he knows me more than they do. He will without doubt tell them this..."I know Essa H B" because thats the way he calls me.

I called him "Jumukorey" a jola word I picked from his close buddies at the time. Let them ask Yahya Jammeh the meaning of these names? All these nicknames were created during our days in the army when all of us thought we were on the disadvantaged side. So if I see the same person who used to complain the whole night doing certain unexpected things it pains me! Am I not obliged to go angry? Tell me Mr Mbai? Oh yes! I have all rights to stand against that hypocritical way of doing things and be counted. Yahya should have been the last person to allow any soldier use unchecked power against people. He knows what I mean. If he thinks those singing his praises today are his loved ones let him go ahead. He will reap the bitter fruits. I Essa care less if Jammeh is angry with me, because I know that all I am saying is for his own good and for the good of the country period.

Freedom Newspaper: Ambassador Sey you are one of the few Public officials who refused to run after Yahya lobbying for a comeback. Are you done with Yahya's jobs or what?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Do you think I am one of them? Anyway I am so pleased in my heart today. You know why? Because many predicted that Essa is just frustrated (around 2003.2004) but he will go back to rejoin. I even read articles saying so. All I knew was that Allah was my witness day and night. Now if I am to run after Yahya? I think Yahya can answer that question better than I do. The Vice President is my close relative and blood cousin for that matter. I can bet Mr Mbai,many of those who were saying those words against me would not have gone against Jammeh if they were related to Isatou. We are all from The Gambia we know each other. Mr Mbai my reservoir of hope is Allah or God!

Freedom Newspaper: What advise do you have for some desperate intellectuals overseas, who are busy writing pleasing commentaries just to win the heart and mind of Jammeh Jilanka. That they think that by writing good pieces about Jammeh they would be hired. Is there job security in Jammeh's Government?

Essa Bokarr Sey: You know Mr Mbai,this is one word that has always been prostituted by many. Intellectual? I would suggest that Gambians start a debate online thus diagnose what this word means. Having a degree does not make one an intellectual. This is why the inventions of cobblers, wood carvers, painters and designers are part of what we call intellectual property. Innovation is not imitation Mr Mbai. An intellectual does not lean on excessive imitation. An intellectual's mind feeds on critical thinking. Are they desperate? I cannot tell. Are they naive? Most likely. Are they using papers to make money without generating income? Maybe so! I do not know who an intellectual is in this wild sea of opportunism? Do you? (laughter).

Freedom Newspaper: What's your overall assessment of the Freedom Newspaper? The paper is today two years old. Any cause for celebration?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Like I said in the piece I wrote to commemorate the paper's two year anniversary. That is.."it is the end result that matters!" Today time has judged again. Go ahead and forge brother history is in the making.

Freedom Newspaper: What makes you have such strong passion for the Freedom Newspaper: Why do you devote greater part of your time writing proses and poems etc for the Freedom Newspaper? Anything special on this?

Essa Bokarr Sey:(laughter) because you are my in-law therefore I want to impress you....(laughter) On a more serious note. Yes I do have time for writing because it is one of the most important factors in life that can help expose my feelings. Another thing is,I strongly believe that, the only option we have today when it comes to expressing our minds, is the internet. It is not inter-perfection, it is a sea of ideas. Some are good some are bad, however the good ones can serve as the detergent we can use when washing the evil within our midst. This is why I like writing. This is why I have time for writing. In life one has to be independent in one's mind. Once again let me reiterate this here.."it is the end result that matter!"

Freedom Newspaper: If you were in the position to advise Jammeh today, how would you want him to treat the Freedom Newspaper and other online papers?

Essa Bokarr Sey: I will simply ask him this..." If he was to be in a country where he will be seeing nothing but trees and hills, would he ever be called a president?" I am pretty sure Jammeh knows the answer. So let him always listen,analyse and evaluate before acting or reacting. If Yahya's performance was to be marked paper by paper,he would not have had good marks in area of tolerance. For example In the area of listening and evaluating before reacting, he would have scored 25%.

Freedom Newspaper: The Peace Corps Director and Bishop Johnson both reacted to stories published by the Freedom Newspaper. What do you make out of such reactions? Don't you think the paper is gaining ground locally and internationally?

Essa Bokarr Sey: I believe so. That means determination wins any war not arsenals. Anyway always use humility. Fame also has its price. That means always be yourself, never think about what you have done,always remind your mind about what is yet to be done. You have so far done a good job in collaboration with the team you are working with!

Freedom Newspaper: We reported about the expulsion of a British sand mining company from The Gambia, which attracted a reaction from the Jammeh Government. In your view, is the Government promoting or discouraging investment in The Gambia?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Was it British or Australian? That is why journalists are called the social watch dogs. I think Jammeh will respect public opinion and continue shedding more light on this subject. Sooner or later this will be looked into by independent parties. The choice is his anyway. As far as I know The Gambia is no one's purse!

Freedom Newspaper: What do you make out of Jammeh's claims that he owns the University of The Gambia?

Essa Bokarr Sey: I think that was infantile and uncalled for from a person who claims to lead a democratic country. Owning the university? Well Mr Mbai I have a list of questions for Jammeh? Does president Wade own Dakar university? Was Sekou Toure the owner of the Guinea Conkary’s university? Is Mandela the owner of South Africa because he fought to free the country from apartheid? Is Marthin Luther King the owner of civil right texts in the USA because he fought to make it become a reality? After all these people have done far more than Yahya Jammeh in life but did they ever claim to own anything?

Freedom Newspaper: What are the dangers of politicizing learning institutions such as the University?

Essa Bokarr Sey: There is no danger here because he cannot even do that! That is not true. He does not own anything there. If he forces ownership towards this university means he is a day light robber. Look Mr Mbai these kind of utterances make me angry when I think about how these institutions were built! Jammeh knows that there are people who can reveal right now how the university was built. He knows that. Please let him not start that now. I told you I care less if Jammeh is angry or laughing when it comes to national interest. I think saying such things makes him look funny as a head of state. Let him stop uttering such remarks. How can he own that university after all? He knows what I mean here. Let him go ahead the future will tackle him.

Freedom Newspaper: Diplomatically speaking, how do you view Jammeh's criticism against the British envoy in The Gambia? That the British sold a greater portion of The Gambia to the French.

Essa Bokarr Sey: Diplomatically, for me it shows a point is missing in whatever lesson he received from any person or place that gave him the map in question. Let him read Basil Davidson’s books. Let him find out the packages of planet TV videos on that subject. Let him ask impartial historians. I do not like it when one calls The Gambia a former colony but what can I do about it? This is a historical fact. He may as well ask what the river Gambia meant to those British colonialists as far trading was concerned? Let him find out why Mongo Park sailed along the river Gambia? He may also find out the reason why The Gambia and Seychelles Islands are seen as a strategic locations? Both countries are small and in Africa! Infact how many countries are much more smaller than The Gambia in this world? So many! Size is not value. Does Mauritania’s population occupy the whole Sahara desert? Has he forgotten the size of the USA versus the rest of the world? Does that mean USA is judged by size? Of course not!

Freedom Newspaper: How would you rate the performance of the Freedom Newspaper?

Essa Bokarr Sey: Well done! There is 100% in life unless if one wants to be unrealistic. That means the paper might have made mistakes here and there but in general I can say if not the best it is one of the best or modern Gambian journalist!

Freedom Newspaper: Any message to Gambians?

Essa Bokarr Sey: We have been destined to live,grow and die Gambians therefore let us all see our relationship as a natural duty. If we build The Gambia to be good,it is our own. If we burn it down then that means we have destroyed our own home! We cannot stay mute when good or bad is done. LETS ALL SPEAK UP,ACT AND REACT. It is our nation. It is our home!

Freedom Newspaper: Thanks Ambassador Sey for granting us this interview.

Essa Bokarr Sey: Thank you Mr Mbai am so pleased because we at least have some where to express our views without any let or hindrance or fear!

May Allah or God always be our shield! Ameen!